Xu Shichang displayed his mastery of self-control, his expression remaining unchanged, though he was inwardly surprised by the question Duan Qirui had raised.

"What about the *Growth Economy*?" This single question could be taken as an inquiry into what a growth economy actually was. Xu Shichang had seen introductions to the "Growth Economy" in newspapers many times and felt it unlikely that Duan Qirui hadn't read them.

If it wasn't a matter of not understanding the definition, Xu Shichang guessed that what Duan Qirui was really asking was what kind of turmoil a growth economy would trigger. And Duan Qirui wouldn't be satisfied with a bland introduction. Just a moment ago, He Rui had said that under a "Stock Economy," merely moving a chair would result in death. It would probably require an insight of similar penetrating power to satisfy Duan Qirui.

He Rui began his introduction: "Speaker Duan, the Growth Economy is also divided into two types. The first type occurs during a change of dynasties. At that time, the world has gone through great chaos, and the population has died off by at least half. The land of the powerful has been confiscated. The new dynasty, having witnessed the fiscal crisis caused by land annexation, will naturally suppress it. As a result, the income of every household increases, and the country thrives for the first few decades."

Both Duan Qirui and Xu Shichang were men of the world, and neither had any sentimental feelings for the working people. Hearing this, they both nodded slightly, feeling that He Rui's view held water.

However, Duan Hongye frowned, his expression showing some unbearableness. Finally, he couldn't help but ask in a low voice, "Chairman, may I ask a question?"

Duan Qirui instantly became angry. He knew his son well; in his early years, he had been dissolute and accomplished nothing. Although he had settled down in recent years and focused on Go, he remained completely ignorant of politics. If He Rui's humility was genuine and he really didn't know how to play Go, then in politics, He Rui was not just a 9-dan national master. If one could rate He Rui as a 10-dan or even a 12-dan grandmaster, Duan Qirui would feel it was entirely appropriate. His own son, Duan Hongye, was someone who hadn't even touched a chess piece in this game.

Duan Qirui shouted, "Adults are talking, what are children interrupting for!"

Duan Hongye usually didn't take his father's scolding seriously, but this time he was scared into a shiver and lowered his head.

He Rui smiled and said, "If you have a question, let's hear it."

Duan Hongye glanced up at his father, not daring to speak recklessly. A large part of Duan Qirui's anger was to protect his son. Seeing Duan Hongye now afraid to speak, he scolded again, "The Chairman asked you to speak, so speak up!"

Duan Hongye lowered his head, making Duan Qirui want to kick him. He had poked the hornet's nest, so why was he afraid to open his mouth now?

After thinking for a while, Duan Hongye looked up and asked, "Chairman, when the Manchu Qing abdicated, China's population loss was not significant. Does this mean a Growth Economy cannot emerge?"

Xu Shichang was stunned. He had actually thought of this question himself, but he hadn't expected Duan Hongye to ask it.

He Rui smiled. "Haha, after China was unified, land reform was implemented. The government has explained many times that the purpose of land reform is to restructure the assets of the bankrupt rural economy and to rescue the people from a bankrupt environment. This can also be considered a type of Growth Economy, it's just that this type of Growth Economy can be sustained for a very short time. Internal government discussions at the time concluded that even with the construction of water conservancy facilities, the period of sustained growth provided would be no more than three to five years."

Seeing that He Rui had actually answered his question seriously, and listening to He Rui's answer, Duan Hongye asked, "So that is why the Chairman signed the comprehensive economic cooperation agreement with France in '28?"

He Rui smiled. "That is the other type of Growth Economy."

Duan Qirui wanted to shout at his son to stop. This time he really wanted the brat to cut the crap; how could national affairs be recklessly evaluated by a child? From unifying China to cooperating with France, they had gone through the Sino-British War in between. He Rui's decisions always looked dangerous, but after He Rui completed them, one would discover that his actions were extremely rhythmic. Although it looked like he left no room for retreat each time, the odds of winning were actually high. A guy like Duan Hongye had better not discuss it at all. Because even if he wanted to flatter He Rui, he would likely miss the point entirely.

Duan Hongye, however, was a bit excited. "Chairman, is this growth the growth of industrialization?"

Xu Shichang saw Duan Qirui's unease and smiled. "Nephew Duan, I have some matters I want to ask Chairman He. How about we switch seats?"

Seeing Duan Hongye obediently shut his mouth and give up the seat next to He Rui, Duan Qirui gave Xu Shichang a grateful look. He felt that the old guys were still reliable at critical moments. Xu Shichang then asked, "Chairman, what is this other type of Growth Economy like?"

He Rui didn't pay any more attention to Duan Hongye. "For over two thousand years, China was the richest country in the world because China developed agricultural production and handicraft production to their limits. Industrial society, however, breaks the production mode based on land and creates a new Growth Economy mode. Let me ask you all a question first. Cities are now full of buildings. If a war breaks out, will the value of this wealth change significantly?"

Xu Shichang answered immediately, "If the flames of war stretch on, the price of buildings in the city will drop immediately. Moreover, many people will flee to the countryside and abandon their houses."

"The economic growth of industrialization is based on population concentration. Population concentration inevitably leads to the emergence of towns and cities. Only with the space of towns and cities to carry wealth is there a foundation to accommodate economic growth. Director Xu, was the economy more prosperous in the Song Dynasty or the Qing Dynasty?"

Xu Shichang had been the Director of the National Archives for the past few years and had finally been able to calm down to read and think. Hearing He Rui's question, he answered immediately, "Naturally, it was the Song Dynasty."

He Rui nodded. "Our substantive alliance with France is to develop China's industry at the fastest possible speed. This type of Growth Economy breaks through the limitations of land and uses the power of the state to maintain a new way of life. This new way of life is used to accommodate entirely new economic growth. This new way of life changes the old social model. And regarding this social model, one issue must be emphasized: who is the creator of wealth! Once this point is clarified, and policies are formulated to encourage the creators of wealth, the economy will develop continuously. The turmoil caused by competition can also be properly resolved."

Duan Qirui realized that He Rui had brought the topic back to the initial discussion about "competition causing chaos." Although he felt it followed logically, the shift was a bit abrupt. At least Duan Qirui felt that there were a few points in the argument that weren't clear, and He Rui hadn't explained them.

Xu Shichang, however, felt he basically understood. He asked, "Chairman, putting it this way, why does it give me the feeling that the Soviet Union is following the old path of China's past dynasties? Is this the gap in civilization level that the Chairman mentioned?"

"Haha, on this earth, which country was the first to realize a comprehensive smallholder economy?" He Rui laughed.

Xu Shichang thought for a moment before answering, "I'm just guessing blindly. I recently read a few articles about changes in Japanese land. Could it be that the first country on earth to realize a comprehensive smallholder economy was China?"

"That's right, it was precisely China. In the Tang Dynasty, there were still many people shouting to restore the *Well-field System*. By the Song Dynasty, people began to sigh, 'Land lasts a thousand years, but changes masters eight hundred times.' This is the so-called 'Ten thousand generations bathed in the grace of the Ancestral Dragon.' Qin Shihuang standardized the script, standardized carriage tracks, abolished feudalism, and established the commandery and county system. The political system he created was meant to conform to the smallholder economy. When the *Well-field System* was established, it was an advanced system under the economic mode of that time. But with the development of productive forces, a more advanced smallholder economy appeared. As the greatest reformer in Chinese history, Qin Shihuang pushed China's system to a new height. Since then, for two thousand years, China has remained the richest country in the world. The social system is the relations of production. Only when the relations of production match the development of productive forces can productive forces develop rapidly."

Xu Shichang was not a Civilization Party member, so he naturally hadn't received Party School education. The theoretical knowledge He Rui spoke of was something that any cadre at the strict department level or above would have studied completely, and ministerial-level cadres fully understood these theories. But for Xu Shichang, it was simply deafening, making him feel his horizons had been greatly broadened.

Whether from excitement or the bumps of the car, Xu Shichang's beard began to tremble slightly. Xu Shichang's eyes suddenly lit up, and he couldn't help but say, "The Rule of the Three Dynasties! This word 'Rule' is truly ingenious!"

Duan Qirui very much wanted to participate in such a discussion, but his knowledge reserve only allowed him to listen from the side; he was greatly lacking if he wanted to join in. However, Duan Qirui didn't like these things anyway. He asked, "Chairman, if it is a competitive environment, trouble is bound to happen. I heard that the country needs to suppress annexation, but I don't know what needs to be suppressed under the new Growth Economy?"

"The annexation in land reform was the annexation of land. Current Chinese land is state-owned, so land annexation does not exist. Annexation in the industrial age also has two directions. The first is monopoly. So-called monopoly can be seen as a low level of civilization, repeating the practice of drawing a circle on the ground as a prison—which even the Chinese smallholder era knew was wrong—in the industrial age. The final result is as Mr. Zhou Shuren described: all resources in society are carved up cleanly, and moving a chair requires death!"

Hearing this and connecting it to the actions of the Beiyang warlords, Duan Qirui couldn't help but nod in agreement.

"The other type of annexation is the state providing guarantees for laborers, ensuring that the country's operating costs cannot be borne by the poor. At this time, wealth annexation is the concentration of wealth towards the investors and the operators who master technology. To stimulate enthusiasm, when dividends are distributed, not only do investors receive dividends, but those who master the technology that promotes technological progress often have to take the other large share. This is the direction of annexation in the new era. Compared to monopoly, this is already considered a relatively reasonable path. And since we want to engage in competition, this profit distribution model is also inevitable. Between repetitive labor and creative labor, creative laborers will definitely receive more."

Duan Qirui was confused listening to this. The future He Rui described seemed to have no problems, but he really couldn't imagine what the future He Rui was describing would actually look like. He opened his mouth to speak but didn't know what to say.

Xu Shichang understood a bit, but the description in He Rui's future that "creative laborers take the large share" made Xu Shichang, who held a *Jinshi* degree, find it hard to believe. Xu Shichang asked, "Chairman, why would investors be willing to let creative laborers take the large share? If creative laborers are disobedient, can't they just be fired?"

"Haha!" He Rui sneered. "Indeed, those people can be fired. But what happens after they are fired? If one or many enterprises fire creative laborers, can't these creative laborers find work? If there are still people in this era who want to engage in personal dependence and personal restraint, are they treating the laws of the country as mere decorations? If the government can't even enforce its own policies, is there any need for this government to exist?"

Only then did Xu Shichang suddenly realize the truth, and he couldn't help but feel a bit ashamed. During the three years of land reform, the He Rui government had deployed a million troops to the grassroots level. People who resisted land policies rebelled constantly in various places, but they were all extinguished as quickly as they rose. Hundreds of thousands of those fellows who appointed themselves "Commanders" and "Great Generals" were killed. The lucky ones were sentenced after being caught. In the current prison labor camps, there were not ten thousand but at least eight thousand "Emperors" making buttons.

Taking the state system into account, Xu Shichang also understood. As long as private investors did not hold the right to personal dependence, they could do nothing against those capable fellows. Capable fellows mastered technology and mastered operational ability; they would be good men wherever they went.

But Xu Shichang still wanted to get to the bottom of it. He pressed, "Chairman, those who master technology still don't have money in their hands."

"The ones who truly earn the greatest profits in an industry are always the top-tier enterprises. To become a top-tier enterprise, one must either master a large amount of advanced technology or possess monopoly rights. In China, only the state possesses monopoly rights. Then, in a competitive environment, what means will these groups of advanced technologists adopt against those industries without technology?"

"In a competitive environment..." Xu Shichang didn't want to say more. He felt that the future He Rui described was somewhat terrifying. If it was a competitive environment, it would be big fish eating small fish. How could the strong let the weak live comfortably? If those strong ones ate by their own ability, they would likely have no good feelings towards enterprises where investors covered the sky with one hand.

Since these two old Beiyang fellows didn't ask more, He Rui didn't want to describe the appearance of the era of competition. He pulled the topic back to the initial content. "Therefore, China's socialist system encourages competition. It encourages people with advanced productive forces to earn profits. This is the pursuit of efficiency. But once efficiency takes priority for too long, the country will become severely polarized. At that time, what society needs is to adjust policies and enter a mode of pursuing fairness. The Soviet Union is a socialist country, but socialism itself is an economics, and economics is a view that studies the laws of the world. Therefore, comparing the socialism of the Soviet Union with the socialism of China, if it were my definition of socialism, it would be metaphysical talk. Everyone chatting about nothing. What can be compared are state systems and economic models. Then, I stand by my words: the Soviet Union is a welfare system state. China is a guarantee-based state."

Xu Shichang hadn't expected He Rui to actually bring the topic back at the end. He didn't know whether to be surprised or admiring. Because He Rui had touched upon too many practical issues while taking the topic apart to explain, this discussion, which had a clear beginning and end, not only failed to completely resolve Xu Shichang's doubts but actually added many new confusions for him.

But Xu Shichang was a *Jinshi* after all, and had been the Great President. He had spent a lot of time in his life considering exactly what kind of China would be the "good China" he believed in. Addressing the content He Rui expounded, Xu Shichang asked, "To what extent can this guarantee actually guarantee things? I mean, to what extent can it guarantee things right now?"

"At the current stage, everyone in China has a pension. After reaching retirement age, they can collect money from the state every month. This money is enough to meet the living needs of retirees. In addition, guaranteed housing is provided in cities. At least before retirement, one can have a place to live by virtue of a labor contract. One will not end up on the streets. Everyone must receive compulsory education during school age, and be able to receive adult education after starting work. As long as these can be achieved, China is the strongest country in the world."

Hearing this, Xu Shichang's expression changed. "The elderly are cared for, the young are educated, the poor are supported, those in difficulty are helped, and widowers, widows, orphans, the childless, and the disabled are all provided for. These are the words of the sages in the *Book of Rites · The Operation of Li*. Chairman, if this can be achieved, it truly is the Rule of the Three Dynasties! The Rule of the Three Dynasties!"

He Rui was a man of science and engineering, so his feelings towards the Rule of the Three Dynasties were far less intense than those of a scholar like Xu Shichang. Moreover, in the industrial age, some wealthy European countries had indeed executed these policies for a short time. It was just that as China rose and Europe could no longer earn super-profits, the economies of those small European countries couldn't withstand it, and these policies existed in name only.

"China's guarantees, besides guaranteeing that the people can afford to lose, must also guarantee that the people have someone to teach them. This is also the advanced point of Chinese civilization. Even if it is the ideal of sages from thousands of years ago, it can still make many people willing to implement it when placed in the present. What's more, for thousands of years, predecessors have worked hard to try to realize these ideals. Although China is not a religious country and does not seek an afterlife, Chinese culture itself is not a civilization that only pursues enjoyment in the present life. As long as one grows up in Chinese civilization and still has hot blood in their chest, they will have feelings for family and country and be willing to dedicate their strength to China's future."

Xu Shichang nodded in deep agreement. "Indeed, indeed."

Duan Qirui was also somewhat moved at this moment. Recalling the last words of Zhang Xiluan relayed by his son not long ago, and thinking of Yuan Shikai proclaiming himself emperor because of his own insufficient level, he felt excited in his heart and couldn't help but smile bitterly. "Even the various warlords, without exception, use unifying the world as their slogan. If it is really seen by people that the warlords only want to carve up territory to protect themselves, if there are some capable people among their subordinates, they will also cast them aside like worn-out shoes."

Xu Shichang felt that Duan Qirui's words were truly untimely, but He Rui expressed his agreement. "Indeed so. This is the merit of Chinese culture. Those without feelings for family and country are destined not to receive support."